Look what I made Ma. - Page 2

Greg · 12-02-2007, 12:57 PM

Maybe the fellow who wrote the song was thinking of the Australian sternwheeler.

shorty943 · 12-02-2007, 11:10 PM

John Foggarty of Creadence Clearwater Revival?

Mmm, doubt it. PS Proud Mary wasn't even built then.

Greg · 12-03-2007, 01:59 AM

Maybe Mr. Proud was inspired by the song title when he named his ship! If his wife's name was Mary Proud it would be just too priceless to pass up!

shorty943 · 12-03-2007, 02:01 AM

That's the one.

The good Captains wife, passed away only a few years ago, he went on to build one more vessel, the Captain Proud, then passed away himself.

I've served as engineer on both for a short time.

Greg · 12-03-2007, 02:36 AM

That sounds like ever so much more romantic a life than flying a desk for more than 30 years!

shorty943 · 12-03-2007, 02:39 AM

OOh, desk don't fly so well.

Never got the hang of them myself, me, paperwork, filing, just, there are no words.
It makes I afeared.

Of course, if it goes wrong at a desk, well just how damned bad can a "paper cut" really be.

If it goes wrong down the engine room, St Peter wants to know why lots of people are dead.

Miros1 · 12-03-2007, 02:59 AM

Take it from someone who's been put out of work by someone flying a desk... things can go very wrong! No physical damage, but the financial woes trickle down faster than Mr. Reagan.

shorty943 · 12-03-2007, 03:10 AM

You're no orphan.

The stroke of a pen cast thousands of factory plant engineers out into the street here 25 years ago. So. You retrain in a side line to your profession and start again.
Then some damned pen pusher.

Greg · 12-03-2007, 12:15 PM

Oh yes, things can go terribly wrong if the guy flying a desk makes an error in the design of an airplane or spacecraft.

Miros1 · 12-03-2007, 08:47 PM

I hope you don't know that from personal experience!

shorty943 · 12-03-2007, 09:47 PM

That's why I build strong.

It may not fly, but it won't break either.

Greg · 12-04-2007, 11:48 AM

Fortunately I can happily report that I have never made a fatal error in the design of either airplanes or spaceships; but I don't think I have ever really been in a position to do so. I can make blunders as well as anyone, but they have always been the sort of blunders that become obvious within minutes and hence are quickly corrected.

In spacecraft, that sort of thing happens at very high levels in the organization chart when we get a civil servant who lets his ego or political desparation override his technical ability. The classic example would be the pure oxygen atmosphere and plug-door hatch in the Apollo command module. Better known examples are the decision to launch the Space Shuttle Challenger, and before that, the decision to hang the manned spacecraft on the side of the fuel tank. Behind the scenes was the decision to combine the human launcher with the cargo launcher.

I don't know if the same sort of error is the root cause of fatal airplane designs, but I suspect it is. It's far too easy to reach a point where you're thinking "Gosh, this is a clever idea!" when a little voice in the back of your mind is saying, "No it's not."

The best news of all is that NASA Administrator Mike Griffin seems to be able to very strongly resist such fatal thinking. He is adamant about putting the crew on top of the booster and having separate launchers for people and cargo. Lower in the organizational tiers folks are always trying to add doodads and geegaws to the spacecraft, but Administrator Griffin holds firm. God speed, Mike!

shorty943 · 12-05-2007, 01:52 AM

Here here. I concur.

The doodad and geegaw fitters are only trying to write their name on the side of the launch any way.

That is one good thing about our fields. The very first proto-test will tell if we got it right or not. We also have certain physical and chemical scientific informations to work with.
I honestly believe, it is very hard to get it wrong in engineering of any kind these days. We have so much experience to fall back on.

But, the younger ones will still try to make it too small, or too light for the job.

12-02-2007, 12:57 PM	#21
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Maybe the fellow who wrote the song was thinking of the Australian sternwheeler. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

12-03-2007, 01:59 AM	#23
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Maybe Mr. Proud was inspired by the song title when he named his ship! If his wife's name was Mary Proud it would be just too priceless to pass up! __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

12-03-2007, 02:36 AM	#25
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	That sounds like ever so much more romantic a life than flying a desk for more than 30 years! __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

12-03-2007, 12:15 PM	#29
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Oh yes, things can go terribly wrong if the guy flying a desk makes an error in the design of an airplane or spacecraft. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

12-04-2007, 11:48 AM	#32
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Fortunately I can happily report that I have never made a fatal error in the design of either airplanes or spaceships; but I don't think I have ever really been in a position to do so. I can make blunders as well as anyone, but they have always been the sort of blunders that become obvious within minutes and hence are quickly corrected. In spacecraft, that sort of thing happens at very high levels in the organization chart when we get a civil servant who lets his ego or political desparation override his technical ability. The classic example would be the pure oxygen atmosphere and plug-door hatch in the Apollo command module. Better known examples are the decision to launch the Space Shuttle Challenger, and before that, the decision to hang the manned spacecraft on the side of the fuel tank. Behind the scenes was the decision to combine the human launcher with the cargo launcher. I don't know if the same sort of error is the root cause of fatal airplane designs, but I suspect it is. It's far too easy to reach a point where you're thinking "Gosh, this is a clever idea!" when a little voice in the back of your mind is saying, "No it's not." The best news of all is that NASA Administrator Mike Griffin seems to be able to very strongly resist such fatal thinking. He is adamant about putting the crew on top of the booster and having separate launchers for people and cargo. Lower in the organizational tiers folks are always trying to add doodads and geegaws to the spacecraft, but Administrator Griffin holds firm. God speed, Mike! __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

12-02-2007, 11:10 PM	#22
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	John Foggarty of Creadence Clearwater Revival? Mmm, doubt it. PS Proud Mary wasn't even built then.

12-03-2007, 02:01 AM	#24
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	That's the one. The good Captains wife, passed away only a few years ago, he went on to build one more vessel, the Captain Proud, then passed away himself. I've served as engineer on both for a short time.

12-03-2007, 02:39 AM	#26
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	OOh, desk don't fly so well. Never got the hang of them myself, me, paperwork, filing, just, there are no words. It makes I afeared. Of course, if it goes wrong at a desk, well just how damned bad can a "paper cut" really be. If it goes wrong down the engine room, St Peter wants to know why lots of people are dead.

12-03-2007, 02:59 AM	#27
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	Take it from someone who's been put out of work by someone flying a desk... things can go very wrong! No physical damage, but the financial woes trickle down faster than Mr. Reagan.

12-03-2007, 03:10 AM	#28
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	You're no orphan. The stroke of a pen cast thousands of factory plant engineers out into the street here 25 years ago. So. You retrain in a side line to your profession and start again. Then some damned pen pusher.

12-03-2007, 08:47 PM	#30
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	I hope you don't know that from personal experience!

12-03-2007, 09:47 PM	#31
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	That's why I build strong. It may not fly, but it won't break either.

12-05-2007, 01:52 AM	#33
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	Here here. I concur. The doodad and geegaw fitters are only trying to write their name on the side of the launch any way. That is one good thing about our fields. The very first proto-test will tell if we got it right or not. We also have certain physical and chemical scientific informations to work with. I honestly believe, it is very hard to get it wrong in engineering of any kind these days. We have so much experience to fall back on. But, the younger ones will still try to make it too small, or too light for the job.