The History Channel - Page 2

Miros1 · 09-23-2007, 09:21 AM

It looks like wikipedia is refering to the congregation as the "First African Baptist Church" and the building as the "African Meeting House," but the silly thing is, the link to "First African Baptist Church" is dead...

The website for the Black History Museum also refers to the building as the African Meeting House, so possibly, that's its legal name. It's still silly that they bleeped the guy for refering to it as the First African Baptist Church.

Greg · 09-23-2007, 12:10 PM

Not First African Baptist Church; it's the First Indepedent Baptist Church.

Miros1 · 09-23-2007, 01:20 PM

At any rate, that name seems to refer to the congregation, which no longer exists, not the building.

Similar situation here... there's a building half a block away which is usually refered to as "The Allegany Historical Society" and infrequently as "the old Free Methodist church," usually by longtime residents, who remember it as such although it's been desanctified.

Probably the desanctification is the real reason for the name change....

Greg · 09-23-2007, 05:00 PM

I might be seeing a light. That show could be just an advertisement for the African Meeting House organization. Nevertheless, their point they were trying to make was that the building is worth preserving because of its historical heritage, not the fact that a black activist group is using it as a meeting house today. The basic message of the show was "give us tax money because this builiding might have once been part of the underground railroad."

Miros1 · 09-23-2007, 08:55 PM

Whether or not it was part of the Underground Railroad, it was definitely part of the abolitionist movement!

Greg · 11-05-2007, 01:40 AM

Ya gotta love this one! Tonight, The "History" Channel is showing a two-hour documentary on the crazies who believe that no airplanes hit any buildings on September 11, 2001!

They're completely missing the real lesson of history. There has always been a lunatic fringe of people who outwardly appear to be functional in human society. The historical significance is until now they have largely been ignored or institutionalized, but now the sensationalistic electronic media has given them a voice, and a lot of people are making big bucks from the insanity.

Greg · 11-05-2007, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miros1

Whether or not it was part of the Underground Railroad, it was definitely part of the abolitionist movement!

Meanwhile, back at the First Indepedent Baptist Church: What do you mean by "desanctified"? I have never heard that term in connection with a Baptist church. How did the Methodists slip in here? Do they "sanctify" buildings? When did the Baptist church become a Methodist church?

As for them (or the building) having any relationship to the abolitionist movement, I have seen no evidence to support it. The people who want the tax money claim that it's true but offer no historical evidence to support the claim.

Miros1 · 11-05-2007, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Meanwhile, back at the First Indepedent Baptist Church: What do you mean by "desanctified"? I have never heard that term in connection with a Baptist church. How did the Methodists slip in here? Do they "sanctify" buildings? When did the Baptist church become a Methodist church?

As for them (or the building) having any relationship to the abolitionist movement, I have seen no evidence to support it. The people who want the tax money claim that it's true but offer no historical evidence to support the claim.

You've got my example of another building local to me mixed in with the main thread.

Perhaps the word "sanctify" isn't used by Protestants, but a new Catholic church is "sanctified" when it comes into use. Kind of a grand opening sale for salvation, or an excuse for a party. The opposite happens when the building is not used as a church any more, although that's usually an edict from the bishop rather than a ceremony.

Neither African Meeting House (Baptist) nor the Allegany Historical Society building (Methodist) is currently in use as a church, although both of them are apparently referred to by the names they had when they had active congregations, which was my point.

As for the abolitionists and the Underground Railroad, at least the first is quite likely, and worth looking for supporting evidence, since speeches by abolitionists were public events and documented. The second, unless they can track down a personal diary by the minister or other involved person at the time or there's a secret room or other structural evidence, is going to be hard to prove. Smuggling slaves was a crime and no one in their right mind is going to document that, except in retrospect!

Miros1 · 11-05-2007, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg

Ya gotta love this one! Tonight, The "History" Channel is showing a two-hour documentary on the crazies who believe that no airplanes hit any buildings on September 11, 2001!

They're completely missing the real lesson of history. There has always been a lunatic fringe of people who outwardly appear to be functional in human society. The historical significance is until now they have largely been ignored or institutionalized, but now the sensationalistic electronic media has given them a voice, and a lot of people are making big bucks from the insanity.

Ain't just the media. A certain Mr. Gibson is attempting to deny the Holocaust. Admittedly, his celebrity gives him more access to the media to express his personal opinion.

Greg · 11-05-2007, 05:23 PM

Naw, that's not what Mel Gibson said, but it's another example of how our sensationalistic media distorts things.

He didn't say a word about the Holocaust. His observation was that the world's problems stem from the Jews squabbling with the Arabs for the last several thousand years.

Greg · 11-05-2007, 05:30 PM

Hmm... good point about the underground railroad. It seems like every old house in upstate New York claims to have been a part of it, so how do we know what's real and what's just fanciful stories?

It makes me wonder how much history is lost because people were afraid to write it down.

shorty943 · 11-06-2007, 10:56 AM

It took a while, but I think I've got it now.
You're talking about the old slave freedom route. Correct?

And Mel? Pinch of salt taken there is a good thing. He can get a little carried away.

Lots of folk, couldn't write. Lots still today can't. My own mother never went to high school.
War time, her mother ill, eldest in the family. You know how it goes. Didn't mean she wasn't cracking smart.

There is a massive amount of small family history, local history, some gets handed down in local tales, most is lost for ever when the people involved pass on. All over the world.

Greg · 11-07-2007, 02:14 AM

Yup, some historians make it their life's work to run around collecting oral history. We can doubt the veracity of a lot of the stories, but considering how much our news media distorts the news today, who's to say that oral history is any less reliable than things gleaned from newspapers?

shorty943 · 11-07-2007, 08:17 AM

Oh yes indeed. There are stories the old boys can tell, that just never get into history books.

One local WW1 tale, involves "Hun Spies". Big Army and Government carry on etc, to the locals it was a damned shame.
He was the local band fiddle player. What now for the monthly dance?

Greg · 11-18-2007, 12:39 AM

But who's to know? A local band fiddle player could well be a German spy. It would make an excellent cover, and it's just as likely that the local fiddle player's sympathies might have been with Germany. At least in America, during WWI there was a very large body of sentiment that we entered the war on the wrong side.

And now for tonight's History Channel travesty: They're showing a hate diatribe purported to be the history of the Ku Klux Klan without once even mentioning the injustice that created it. They also are studiously avoiding any notice of the Klan's foundation as wing of a political party.

Now they're preaching hatred of the South because the Klan was in the South. That would be those famous Southern states of New York, Massachusettes, Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, and California, of course.

shorty943 · 11-18-2007, 06:59 AM

My home state has a considerable German settler history, towns like Klemzig now a suburb of Adelaide, Hahndorf and Lobethal settler towns in the Adelaide Hills, the world famous SA wine region of the Barossa Valley with wineries like "Kaiser stuhl" and "Lindemans" and "Wolf Blass".

Our fiddle player was also the farm cook on "The Brophy Place", old Ted Brophy himself told me. "Ah were but a boy then, mind" said Ted in his soft Cornish burr.
90 something years old, still driving the trucks and tractors around.
"doin' faarmin' mind". Good old boys.

Yeah, we get the ultra left out here as well. Affiliated with your "Klan" is our "National Action". Just a bunch of scare little white boys, with guns.

Greg · 11-18-2007, 12:56 PM

Aha! You might be able to answer a question that came up on Friday night at Sherlock's pub. Does Blass beer come from Australia?

I was previously unaware that Australia had the same sort of problems with that sort of organization. What drives the National Action folks to do what they do?

shorty943 · 11-19-2007, 03:00 AM

1. Nope, you get our good beer. Cooper's Big Barrel. It's made by a family owned Adelaide brewer, and we can't buy it here. It is export only. Damn it.

2. read my last post. "Scared little white guys with guns".
They are a bunch of Neo-Nazi thugs, with some "white supremacy" psychosis going on in their heads.

We, the Australian Aborigine, have them confused. Anthropologically, we are actually Caucasian. We's white folk too "Brudder".

But at least they are in the open. It's the subversive secretive mobs we haven't found yet, that can do the damage in this new age.

Greg · 11-19-2007, 11:16 AM

Cooper's Big Barrel is one I've never heard of before; but then, Australia has almost as many brands of beer as it does sheep!

And I just learned something new! I was unware that anthropologically the Australian Aborigine is Caucasian. There must be some fascinating history of how the people migrated from wherever they came from.

shorty943 · 11-19-2007, 01:19 PM

Yep, but it is back in what we call "The Dreamtime". Our people had no written language, oral only.

There was a tiny mention in a recent "World Around Us" documentary, on our SBS network. The History of Homo Erectus or some such.

But, they aren't initiates. They aren't men. They are not in the "need to know" book. So they only know, what they know, and no more.

Then again, I'm not an initiate either. Wrong clan or something.
Warrior man, not spirit man or something.
I do have an ancient, who journeys with me in this life. He is spirit clan. Mind, spirit, will, honour, all so strong in him. He is my life guide.

All very complex. Is our old culture.

09-23-2007, 12:10 PM	#22
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Not First African Baptist Church; it's the First Indepedent Baptist Church. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

09-23-2007, 01:20 PM	#23
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	At any rate, that name seems to refer to the congregation, which no longer exists, not the building. Similar situation here... there's a building half a block away which is usually refered to as "The Allegany Historical Society" and infrequently as "the old Free Methodist church," usually by longtime residents, who remember it as such although it's been desanctified. Probably the desanctification is the real reason for the name change.... Last edited by Miros1 : 09-23-2007 at 02:58 PM.

09-23-2007, 05:00 PM	#24
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	I might be seeing a light. That show could be just an advertisement for the African Meeting House organization. Nevertheless, their point they were trying to make was that the building is worth preserving because of its historical heritage, not the fact that a black activist group is using it as a meeting house today. The basic message of the show was "give us tax money because this builiding might have once been part of the underground railroad." __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

11-05-2007, 01:40 AM	#26
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Ya gotta love this one! Tonight, The "History" Channel is showing a two-hour documentary on the crazies who believe that no airplanes hit any buildings on September 11, 2001! They're completely missing the real lesson of history. There has always been a lunatic fringe of people who outwardly appear to be functional in human society. The historical significance is until now they have largely been ignored or institutionalized, but now the sensationalistic electronic media has given them a voice, and a lot of people are making big bucks from the insanity. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

11-05-2007, 05:23 PM	#30
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Naw, that's not what Mel Gibson said, but it's another example of how our sensationalistic media distorts things. He didn't say a word about the Holocaust. His observation was that the world's problems stem from the Jews squabbling with the Arabs for the last several thousand years. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know? Last edited by Greg : 11-05-2007 at 05:31 PM. Reason: "exmaple"? Would that be a maple that turned into an oak?

09-23-2007, 09:21 AM	#21
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	It looks like wikipedia is refering to the congregation as the "First African Baptist Church" and the building as the "African Meeting House," but the silly thing is, the link to "First African Baptist Church" is dead... The website for the Black History Museum also refers to the building as the African Meeting House, so possibly, that's its legal name. It's still silly that they bleeped the guy for refering to it as the First African Baptist Church.

09-23-2007, 08:55 PM	#25
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	Whether or not it was part of the Underground Railroad, it was definitely part of the abolitionist movement!

11-05-2007, 05:30 PM	#31
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Hmm... good point about the underground railroad. It seems like every old house in upstate New York claims to have been a part of it, so how do we know what's real and what's just fanciful stories? It makes me wonder how much history is lost because people were afraid to write it down. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

11-06-2007, 10:56 AM	#32
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	It took a while, but I think I've got it now. You're talking about the old slave freedom route. Correct? And Mel? Pinch of salt taken there is a good thing. He can get a little carried away. Lots of folk, couldn't write. Lots still today can't. My own mother never went to high school. War time, her mother ill, eldest in the family. You know how it goes. Didn't mean she wasn't cracking smart. There is a massive amount of small family history, local history, some gets handed down in local tales, most is lost for ever when the people involved pass on. All over the world. Last edited by shorty943 : 11-06-2007 at 11:03 AM.

11-07-2007, 02:14 AM	#33
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Yup, some historians make it their life's work to run around collecting oral history. We can doubt the veracity of a lot of the stories, but considering how much our news media distorts the news today, who's to say that oral history is any less reliable than things gleaned from newspapers? __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

11-07-2007, 08:17 AM	#34
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	Oh yes indeed. There are stories the old boys can tell, that just never get into history books. One local WW1 tale, involves "Hun Spies". Big Army and Government carry on etc, to the locals it was a damned shame. He was the local band fiddle player. What now for the monthly dance?

11-18-2007, 12:39 AM	#35
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	But who's to know? A local band fiddle player could well be a German spy. It would make an excellent cover, and it's just as likely that the local fiddle player's sympathies might have been with Germany. At least in America, during WWI there was a very large body of sentiment that we entered the war on the wrong side. And now for tonight's History Channel travesty: They're showing a hate diatribe purported to be the history of the Ku Klux Klan without once even mentioning the injustice that created it. They also are studiously avoiding any notice of the Klan's foundation as wing of a political party. Now they're preaching hatred of the South because the Klan was in the South. That would be those famous Southern states of New York, Massachusettes, Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, and California, of course. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know? Last edited by Greg : 11-18-2007 at 01:07 AM.

11-18-2007, 06:59 AM	#36
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	My home state has a considerable German settler history, towns like Klemzig now a suburb of Adelaide, Hahndorf and Lobethal settler towns in the Adelaide Hills, the world famous SA wine region of the Barossa Valley with wineries like "Kaiser stuhl" and "Lindemans" and "Wolf Blass". Our fiddle player was also the farm cook on "The Brophy Place", old Ted Brophy himself told me. "Ah were but a boy then, mind" said Ted in his soft Cornish burr. 90 something years old, still driving the trucks and tractors around. "doin' faarmin' mind". Good old boys. Yeah, we get the ultra left out here as well. Affiliated with your "Klan" is our "National Action". Just a bunch of scare little white boys, with guns.

11-18-2007, 12:56 PM	#37
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Aha! You might be able to answer a question that came up on Friday night at Sherlock's pub. Does Blass beer come from Australia? I was previously unaware that Australia had the same sort of problems with that sort of organization. What drives the National Action folks to do what they do? __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

11-19-2007, 03:00 AM	#38
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	1. Nope, you get our good beer. Cooper's Big Barrel. It's made by a family owned Adelaide brewer, and we can't buy it here. It is export only. Damn it. 2. read my last post. "Scared little white guys with guns". They are a bunch of Neo-Nazi thugs, with some "white supremacy" psychosis going on in their heads. We, the Australian Aborigine, have them confused. Anthropologically, we are actually Caucasian. We's white folk too "Brudder". But at least they are in the open. It's the subversive secretive mobs we haven't found yet, that can do the damage in this new age.

11-19-2007, 11:16 AM	#39
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Cooper's Big Barrel is one I've never heard of before; but then, Australia has almost as many brands of beer as it does sheep! And I just learned something new! I was unware that anthropologically the Australian Aborigine is Caucasian. There must be some fascinating history of how the people migrated from wherever they came from. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

11-19-2007, 01:19 PM	#40
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	Yep, but it is back in what we call "The Dreamtime". Our people had no written language, oral only. There was a tiny mention in a recent "World Around Us" documentary, on our SBS network. The History of Homo Erectus or some such. But, they aren't initiates. They aren't men. They are not in the "need to know" book. So they only know, what they know, and no more. Then again, I'm not an initiate either. Wrong clan or something. Warrior man, not spirit man or something. I do have an ancient, who journeys with me in this life. He is spirit clan. Mind, spirit, will, honour, all so strong in him. He is my life guide. All very complex. Is our old culture.