Master and Commander - Page 5

Miros1 · 12-02-2007, 04:33 PM

Actually, I've seen army layouts like you described at Origins. They're used to re-enact historical battles in miniature. I remember a 20 foot long 7 foot wide one recreating a pass in India, Khyber or something like that? Yes, the "battle" took all afternoon!

No one is crazy enough to do a sea layout, at least not that I've seen!

shorty943 · 12-02-2007, 10:38 PM

I've seen some amazing diarama's of famous sea battles in maritme and Naval museums. Complete with cotton wool gunsmoke, smashed rigging and all.
Our National War Memorial Museum, in Canberra, has many, and a 4 engine British Lancaster Bomber from WW2, parked inside the museum.

The National Maritime Museum, in Darling Harbour, Sydney has an ex-Navy heicopter hanging from the ceiling, beside one of our America's Cup yacht's.
And a fully functional 1960's V class destroyer, HMAS Vampire, a Vietnam Veteran, sitting at the wharfside.

The South Australian Maritime Museum has a 72 foot ketch rigged coastal trader, fully rigged and still able to sail, If, they remove the museum roof.

Yep, she sits in the basement and takes up 3 floors.

And sometimes, we just turn the whole thing into a living working museum, like the PS Marion. In the "Goldfields", we have whole pioneer towns, still as they were over 100 years ago, still alive and kept for future generations to try to understand what it was like. Auntie Molly's great-great niece is still using the grand dams cook pots, to make Auntie Molly's PEPPERmint humbugs. The grown up ones. The ones that make kids cry.

But, a Naval battle re-enactment? OOOH

I suppose we could fix the Coliseum up. It used to be used for that very thing.
How far back would you like to go? The British Naval Museum, in Portsmouth, has Admiral Horatio Nelson's flagship HMS Victory, in the dry dock, she fought the battle of Trafalgar, and is still a fully commissioned ship of the fleet, and still capable of being sailed out to sea to this day.

Greg · 12-03-2007, 01:47 AM

I'm not sure that an Admiral Nelson battle would fit even in the Colosseum! Maybe Sydney Harbor.

shorty943 · 12-03-2007, 03:07 AM

Okay then, Sydney.
That means the "James Craig" can join the fun.
And "Bounty". "Eye of the Wind" may be there as well.

We can bring "Failie" and "One and All" over from SA.

WA, has Cook's "Endeavor", built in exact replica, "Polly Woodside" and "Alma Doepel", from Victoria.

Bring "Our Svannen" down from Queensland, and the "Lady Nelson" up from Tasmania.

Then there are the newer sailing ships like the "Young Endeavor", a bi-centenary gift to the nation (from Britain) and run by the Navy for school kids and under-privileged kids to get some life\trust experience.

Wot you got?

Greg · 12-03-2007, 12:20 PM

Well, let's see... there's the USS Consitution! I'd have to hunt down the tall ships tour to find the rest of them. Almost every coastal state has at least one but I don't know which of them are merchants and which are fighting ships. But hey, we could stage a fictional scene where the fighting ships are protecting the merchants!

Besides, if we do it in Sydney Harbor, we actually fire the guns!

shorty943 · 12-03-2007, 10:23 PM

Oh yes, we can get Fort Denison firing the canons as well.

Fort Denison is right in harbour center, built on a rock outcrop known as Pinchgut Island.
Harks back to our convict past. Be a good convict or we will send you to Pinchgut, son.

It's got some lovely big old canons.

Greg · 12-04-2007, 11:54 AM

That brings to mind an interesting question: Has there ever been a war on Australian soil? Did anyone ever sail a ship up Sydney Harbor thinking to challenge Fort Denison?

Meanwhile, in the book, Jack Aubrey and Stephen Maturin have just made landfall in South Africa on their way to a date with the French. They plan to take exception to Napoleon's notion that France ought to own some little islands a couple of thousand miles east of there.

Miros1 · 12-04-2007, 04:52 PM

Shorty, I just saw the siggy change... what happened to the bathroom roof?

shorty943 · 12-05-2007, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miros1

Shorty, I just saw the siggy change... what happened to the bathroom roof?

It blew off in a storm about 3 weeks ago.

I've fixed it. Now all I have to do is get it back up on the bathroom.
A tractor job, when there is no wind.

And to answer Greg. YES.

WW2. The Jappanese attacked and bombed the hell out of us.
Submarine raids into Sydney Harbour trying to get one of your battle ships.
They raided all the way down to Melbourne in the south east, and Freemantle on the west coast.
Darwin, the northern capital was air raided and bombed 65 times in 3 years.
In all the Jappanese tried to assault and invade us over 90 times during the war.
Something even a lot of Aussies don't know properly.

McCarthur, of "I shall return" fame, sent a bunch of aussie reserves onto the Kakoda Track in New Guinea to hold the Japs back while he got his troops out.
He and Washington were going to give in to the Japs and let them have the top half of australia.

My great uncle, my Mother's uncle was one of those "Chocko's" as we call our "National Guard" or Army Reserve units.
A bunch of part time soldiers did what McCarthur's professional soldiers couldn't, they smashed the Empire advance and started the route back to Tokyo.

Yeah mate, the war sure did touch Aussie shores, in a way it never did the USA.

Aaahh, the French.

The only nation in the world, to surrender not once, but twice, to the only nation in the world, that lost 2 world wars in a row.

You go get em Jack.

Greg · 12-28-2007, 12:56 AM

What are irons?

What's a horse?

"... he saw the vast breaking wave with the Waakzaamheid broadside on its curl, on her beam-ends, broached to."

Its curl? Beam-ends? Broached to?

Added: Oh yes, Jack got 'em! Then some admiral showed up with a huge fleet and took credit for the whole thing.

Greg · 12-28-2007, 01:22 AM

Meanwhile, back at the war, yup, one of the great benefits that America has enjoyed for the past 200 years is that it's beastly difficult to get to. Since the formative days when the nation was defining itself, the only foreign wars we've fought on American soil are one disagreement with Mexico (over Texas) and our unsuccessful attempt to repel the damnyankee invaders from the fair soil of Dixie.

One might also count the Japanese Aleutian Islands Campaign in WWII or their attack on Pearl Harbor, but Alaska and Hawaii weren't states at the time.

Miros1 · 12-28-2007, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg

What are irons?

What's a horse?

"... he saw the vast breaking wave with the Waakzaamheid broadside on its curl, on her beam-ends, broached to."

Its curl? Beam-ends? Broached to?

Added: Oh yes, Jack got 'em! Then some admiral showed up with a huge fleet and took credit for the whole thing.

broadside on its curl means there was a ship on top of a wave, sideways to the top of the wave.

on her beam-ends means practically on its side.

I think broached to means taking on water, which makes sense if it's sideways on top of a wave practically on its side. If it's not now, it will when the wave breaks.

Can you use "irons" and "horse" in a sentence? It sounds like something to do with shipboard discipline.

BTW, a good reference for this is "Run Out the Guns," a game supplement from Iron Crown Enterprises. "Seven Seas," if you can't get "Run Out the Guns."

Greg · 12-28-2007, 05:50 PM

But what are beam-ends?

Miros1 · 12-28-2007, 09:56 PM

The beams under the deck run crosswise. So if the ship is over on its side, it's "on its beam-ends," literally.

Hubby and I figure "irons" are manacles or shackles. I think a "horse" is part of a pillory.

Greg · 12-29-2007, 03:36 AM

Ah, your deviant mind has the better of you, Rose. Neither irons nor horse refers to dungeon equipment. I'm not sure that they do refer to, but it's definitely not dungeon equipment.

We need to wake up Shorty.

Miros1 · 12-29-2007, 04:46 AM

He prolly spent Christmas drinking beer with his landlord to stave off rent increases, so you might have to use "irons" and "horse" in a sentence so I can figure them out...

Greg · 12-29-2007, 12:28 PM

The only problem with that approach is that if it were obvious from the context, I wouldn't have to ask.

shorty943 · 01-01-2008, 07:44 AM

Huh? Where, who, what am I?

Has that bad man gone away yet? He made I head hurt. Three times.

Have a well and prosperous new year all.

Back to our story, our Rosie is good.

Very bad seamanship to end up broached on the curl of a wave.
That's the waves "break". There is no water under your hull.
Next, is a "knock down" onto your beam ends. Then you hit your head on the deckhead\bulkhead\deck etc, cos you just rolled her baby. BAD seamanship.

Irons, just as Rosie said. Clap him in Irons, and throw him into the fo'csle. He's a bad sailor.

The horse could be any number of things, must check that one.
More context please.

Greg · 01-01-2008, 12:07 PM

I'll have to look up the context for them, but O'Brian used irons to refer to either something a ship did while moving about in the waves or maybe a part of the ship, maybe something near the gunwhales, like "she was in irons" where she is the ship.

The horse was a part of the ship and I think it was near the bow or stern on the top deck. He has mentioned that ships have horses as a pun and then has referred to them several times without providing a clue about what a horse might be. I think there was one scene where Dr. Maturn went past the irons and climbed out on the bowsprit.

Miros1 · 01-01-2008, 03:15 PM

But did you ensure he won't increase your rent?

Now I'm curious about what horse and irons are...

12-03-2007, 01:47 AM	#83
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	I'm not sure that an Admiral Nelson battle would fit even in the Colosseum! Maybe Sydney Harbor. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

12-03-2007, 12:20 PM	#85
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Well, let's see... there's the USS Consitution! I'd have to hunt down the tall ships tour to find the rest of them. Almost every coastal state has at least one but I don't know which of them are merchants and which are fighting ships. But hey, we could stage a fictional scene where the fighting ships are protecting the merchants! Besides, if we do it in Sydney Harbor, we actually fire the guns! __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

12-04-2007, 11:54 AM	#87
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	That brings to mind an interesting question: Has there ever been a war on Australian soil? Did anyone ever sail a ship up Sydney Harbor thinking to challenge Fort Denison? Meanwhile, in the book, Jack Aubrey and Stephen Maturin have just made landfall in South Africa on their way to a date with the French. They plan to take exception to Napoleon's notion that France ought to own some little islands a couple of thousand miles east of there. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

12-28-2007, 12:56 AM	#90
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	What are irons? What's a horse? "... he saw the vast breaking wave with the Waakzaamheid broadside on its curl, on her beam-ends, broached to." Its curl? Beam-ends? Broached to? Added: Oh yes, Jack got 'em! Then some admiral showed up with a huge fleet and took credit for the whole thing. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

12-28-2007, 01:22 AM	#91
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Meanwhile, back at the war, yup, one of the great benefits that America has enjoyed for the past 200 years is that it's beastly difficult to get to. Since the formative days when the nation was defining itself, the only foreign wars we've fought on American soil are one disagreement with Mexico (over Texas) and our unsuccessful attempt to repel the damnyankee invaders from the fair soil of Dixie. One might also count the Japanese Aleutian Islands Campaign in WWII or their attack on Pearl Harbor, but Alaska and Hawaii weren't states at the time. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

12-02-2007, 04:33 PM	#81
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	Actually, I've seen army layouts like you described at Origins. They're used to re-enact historical battles in miniature. I remember a 20 foot long 7 foot wide one recreating a pass in India, Khyber or something like that? Yes, the "battle" took all afternoon! No one is crazy enough to do a sea layout, at least not that I've seen!

12-02-2007, 10:38 PM	#82
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	I've seen some amazing diarama's of famous sea battles in maritme and Naval museums. Complete with cotton wool gunsmoke, smashed rigging and all. Our National War Memorial Museum, in Canberra, has many, and a 4 engine British Lancaster Bomber from WW2, parked inside the museum. The National Maritime Museum, in Darling Harbour, Sydney has an ex-Navy heicopter hanging from the ceiling, beside one of our America's Cup yacht's. And a fully functional 1960's V class destroyer, HMAS Vampire, a Vietnam Veteran, sitting at the wharfside. The South Australian Maritime Museum has a 72 foot ketch rigged coastal trader, fully rigged and still able to sail, If, they remove the museum roof. Yep, she sits in the basement and takes up 3 floors. And sometimes, we just turn the whole thing into a living working museum, like the PS Marion. In the "Goldfields", we have whole pioneer towns, still as they were over 100 years ago, still alive and kept for future generations to try to understand what it was like. Auntie Molly's great-great niece is still using the grand dams cook pots, to make Auntie Molly's PEPPERmint humbugs. The grown up ones. The ones that make kids cry. But, a Naval battle re-enactment? OOOH I suppose we could fix the Coliseum up. It used to be used for that very thing. How far back would you like to go? The British Naval Museum, in Portsmouth, has Admiral Horatio Nelson's flagship HMS Victory, in the dry dock, she fought the battle of Trafalgar, and is still a fully commissioned ship of the fleet, and still capable of being sailed out to sea to this day.

12-03-2007, 03:07 AM	#84
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	Okay then, Sydney. That means the "James Craig" can join the fun. And "Bounty". "Eye of the Wind" may be there as well. We can bring "Failie" and "One and All" over from SA. WA, has Cook's "Endeavor", built in exact replica, "Polly Woodside" and "Alma Doepel", from Victoria. Bring "Our Svannen" down from Queensland, and the "Lady Nelson" up from Tasmania. Then there are the newer sailing ships like the "Young Endeavor", a bi-centenary gift to the nation (from Britain) and run by the Navy for school kids and under-privileged kids to get some life\trust experience. Wot you got?

12-03-2007, 10:23 PM	#86
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	Oh yes, we can get Fort Denison firing the canons as well. Fort Denison is right in harbour center, built on a rock outcrop known as Pinchgut Island. Harks back to our convict past. Be a good convict or we will send you to Pinchgut, son. It's got some lovely big old canons.

12-04-2007, 04:52 PM	#88
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	Shorty, I just saw the siggy change... what happened to the bathroom roof?

12-28-2007, 05:50 PM	#93
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	But what are beam-ends? __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

12-28-2007, 09:56 PM	#94
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	The beams under the deck run crosswise. So if the ship is over on its side, it's "on its beam-ends," literally. Hubby and I figure "irons" are manacles or shackles. I think a "horse" is part of a pillory.

12-29-2007, 03:36 AM	#95
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	Ah, your deviant mind has the better of you, Rose. Neither irons nor horse refers to dungeon equipment. I'm not sure that they do refer to, but it's definitely not dungeon equipment. We need to wake up Shorty. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

12-29-2007, 04:46 AM	#96
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	He prolly spent Christmas drinking beer with his landlord to stave off rent increases, so you might have to use "irons" and "horse" in a sentence so I can figure them out...

12-29-2007, 12:28 PM	#97
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	The only problem with that approach is that if it were obvious from the context, I wouldn't have to ask. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

01-01-2008, 07:44 AM	#98
shorty943 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 805	Huh? Where, who, what am I? Has that bad man gone away yet? He made I head hurt. Three times. Have a well and prosperous new year all. Back to our story, our Rosie is good. Very bad seamanship to end up broached on the curl of a wave. That's the waves "break". There is no water under your hull. Next, is a "knock down" onto your beam ends. Then you hit your head on the deckhead\bulkhead\deck etc, cos you just rolled her baby. BAD seamanship. Irons, just as Rosie said. Clap him in Irons, and throw him into the fo'csle. He's a bad sailor. The horse could be any number of things, must check that one. More context please.

01-01-2008, 12:07 PM	#99
Greg Da Guy Wut Owns Dis Joint Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 3,566	I'll have to look up the context for them, but O'Brian used irons to refer to either something a ship did while moving about in the waves or maybe a part of the ship, maybe something near the gunwhales, like "she was in irons" where she is the ship. The horse was a part of the ship and I think it was near the bow or stern on the top deck. He has mentioned that ships have horses as a pun and then has referred to them several times without providing a clue about what a horse might be. I think there was one scene where Dr. Maturn went past the irons and climbed out on the bowsprit. __________________ Who are all these people and what do they know?

01-01-2008, 03:15 PM	#100
Miros1 Goddess for Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY State Posts: 3,303	But did you ensure he won't increase your rent? Now I'm curious about what horse and irons are...